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Time Machine: CERN's Large Hadron Collider


"QUANTUM SHOT" #389
link


UPDATE, September 10, 2008:

The first beam was fired on the LHC last night, and it went all the way around the circle. So far everything's great, but the Collider does not go full power till next year. When we needed a headline to spotlight this in DRB, we wrote down "LHC Goes Live! Titanic Possibilities" - but then looked at it again and scratched out heads. See if you can catch the irony.

Look closely.
This is what the world's first Time Machine may look like


Never heard of "traversable wormholes?"

Well, soon you might start hearing about them, as the world's most powerful particle accelerator becomes functional this spring - unleashing forces, capable of distorting not only space (just like gravity distorts space around Earth), but also TIME.



(image courtesy/copyright CERN)

CERN's Large Hadron Collider is set to become the very first time machine in history.

According to the research published by Irina Arefieva and Igor Volovich, "in general relativity, a time-like curve in space-time will run from past to future. But in some space-times the curves can intersect themselves, giving a closed-like curve, which is interpreted as a time machine - which suggests the possibility of time travel"





Two proton beams travel in opposite directions and collide at four points along the way - replicating the Big Bang conditions of "cosmic plasma", a mysterious almost liquid state, which occurred before quarks had cooled off enough to allow atoms to form together. The Large Hadron Collider will force quarks to break free of their bonds, the matter substance to unravel - to recreate the original "cosmic plasma", and to reconstruct Big Bang conditions. (hopefully on a much smaller scale)



(image courtesy/copyright CERN)


Here are some quick facts:
- 20-year work-in-progress
- A team of 7,000 physicists from more than 80 nations
- 27 kilometers in circumference, 175 meters underground
- facilitating head-on collision of protons, traveling very near the speed-of-light
- each tunnel is big enough to run a train through it.
- temperatures generated: more than 1000,000 times hotter than the sun's core
- superconducting magnets are cooled to a temperature colder than in deep space


(image credit: wiki - via)

The Collider Tunnel:


(image courtesy/copyright CERN)


(click to enlarge; image courtesy/copyright CERN)


(image credit: David Levin)


The most complicated thing that humans have ever built

To better appreciate the enormous scale of this beast, consider that it runs 17 miles across the border of two countries, has detectors in four locations the size of buildings, housed in huge caverns - and if you happen to be inside the tunnel while this thing is in operation, you would have a highly radioactive - and fatal - experience.

Just one superconducting solenoid (CMS) contains in it more iron than the Eiffel Tower. The cost of building LHC is so high, that America had to put a stop to its own Superconducting Super Collider in 1993 (even though 14 miles of tunnel had already been dug in Texas), so today CERN's structure is the lone contender for the title "the most complicated thing that humans have ever built".



(Installation of the CMS silicon tracking detector, photo by Michael Hoch, CERN)



(The world's largest solenoid magnet will be fitted inside, photo by Peter Ginter, CERN)


Click on the image below to get a 360 degrees VR view:


(image credit: Peter McCready)



(image credit: Peter McCready)



(image credit: David Levin)


CMS detector, before it was lowered 100m underground:


(image credit: Ryuji Kusumoto)


Cross section of the ATLAS detector, the size of a cathedral:


(image credit: David Levin)


There are people in these pictures, for scale (see if you can spot them):


(image courtesy/copyright CERN)



(image credit: David Levin)


The wire bundles (seriously gnarly stuff):


(image credit: Robert Scoble)


The LHC team has been called the "Lords of the Ring", the project itself compared to something out of Star Wars (hopefully not the building of the Death Star). Look at the picture below, doesn't it look like Han Solo's hyperdrive on the left?


(image courtesy/copyright CERN)


The idea is to focus all this incredible energy into the smallest space possible. As they say, "the more energy goes in, the more massive the particles that come out". How massive? How about a miniature black hole?


If not time-travel, other exciting thing produced by LHC may be:
The end of the world as we know it


Apologies for a sensationalist headline, but how would you like a miniature Big Bang generated in your community, with scientists going around in little black vans with blaring loudspeakers: "Everything is under control, remain calm, look for a miniature blackhole in your kitchen sink"?

All jokes aside, scientists do expect excitement, but of the containable kind. The well-known reasons behind building LHC are finding the "God Particle" (Higgs Boson?) and coming up with the "Grand Unified Theory" of all forces of the Universe. For the estimation of dangers associated with LHC, read this paper abstract.

All other weird notions that LHC may produce uncontrollable Medium-sized Bang, or a bad-mannered black hole, are put to rest by CERN scientists: they assure us that "even if black holes will be produced, they will be too small and too short-lived to generate a strong gravitational force." In other words, Geneva is not going to get sucked into anything cosmologically weird.

Good.

The Internet's Web started here...
Time Travel might as well start here, too


CERN scientists know what they talk about, and we can trust them - after all, last time they needed something for sharing collider data, they invented the World Wide Web! According to some sources, even now one THIRD of ALL internet traffic flows thru this facility in CERN's computing center (one of the three main hubs for world wide web):


(image credit: David Levin)

I like how Discover Magazine puts it: "The collisions at LHC could spray out strange new kinds of matter, unfurl hidden dimensions of space, even generate tiny glowing reenactments of the birth of the universe." And now, as we have seen - it may even facilitate time travel.

"We don’t even know what to expect," says French physicist Yves Schutz. "We’re now in a domain of energy that nobody has ever explored."

Click to enlarge:


(image courtesy/copyright CERN)


Particle Art for the Dawning Era

In addition to everything else, the collision of particles makes for an interesting art:
"Simulated Bubble Chamber"


(image credit: Eric Charlton)

Read more: 1, 2, 3
See the huge depository of project's photos here, and full VR here

Article by Avi Abrams, images by exclusive permission of CERN. All rights reserved


Also read "Big Bang v2.0"

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YOUR COMMENTS::

108 Comments:

Anonymous David Bryden said...

What a waste of money. God put all we need to know about the Cosmos into His holy book.
Here at Creationism Labs, we seek the Truth in our own way. We hurl King James Bibles together at great speed, smashing them into tiny bits of paper which we paste together to form new Divine Revelations.

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Blogger JOLLY ROGER said...

HOW DO YOU DO…
TIME TRAVEL

21st century boring you?
Want a way to walk with dinosaurs that isn’t sitting really close to the TV to watch an unrealistic 3D diplodocus eat leaves?
You need a holiday in time, or dinoworld

Tick, tick, tick… tick

1.5 million years since fire was lit, 35,000 years after the birth of art, 16,000 years from the first mappings of stars and 600 years since the blueprints of the helicopter were drawn. We sit here thinking, “Y’know the 21st century could have been a bit more, well, silvery.” Aside from those metal toasters that’ll burn a farmyard animal into your bread and those credit cards with one of the corners cut off a bit. The 21st century has had:

No proper Robots. My house isn’t doing stuff for me when I go to work so when I get back it’s like a new house and the kitchens in the bathroom. Cars and skateboards don’t hover. We can’t holiday in space and the so called information super highway is still not bypassing my brain with an LCD screen in my eye and USB ports in my tippy toes.

AHHhhhh, yet as a time traveller you can go to the future where these things should have occurred with a few other things that you probably didn’t think about; like a chocolate bar called waffpinuts. A wafer, pineapple and nuts bar wrapped in Kevlar.

Then, go back in time to tell all those people on Tomorrows World that hoodwinked our innocent child eyes, “Hey hey, perm-head, that ain't going to happen you pre-foetus futurist fuck.”
And they’d have to believe your aggressive preaching cos you’d bring an almanac from 2008 with all the sports results and next weeks Eastenders from UK-GOLD, so there.

...continues at lifestyleguides.blogspot.com

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been there on a school trip. Very massive stuff!

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Anonymous Pixiu said...

Well This Time Travel is meant for atomic particles. If you are actually planning to travel and forget about the urban time then plan your trip for free at my blog.

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OpenID SeeFood said...

"a fraction of an inch"?

Shame on you Avi. I'm sure they use micrometer and nanometer scales there...

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great post, but I have a minor nit to pick.

CERN invented the web, not the internet. I'll try to explain the difference without geeking out too much.

The web is the to-level user interface - you just point and click to get around. It's very user friendly, but the real work is done by the internet.

Let me make an analogy. It's a lot like the relation between the user interface (UI) and the operating system (OS) on your computer. The OS does the real work, but is difficult for non-experts to use directly. (think of DOS or UNIX) The UI lives on top of the OS and lets you do things by pointing and clicking. (Think of Windows) That's what makes computers useable by everyone.

So if the web is the UI, then the internet is the OS.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet#History

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web#History

Again, thanks for the post.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

The CERN is the most fascinating place to be if you're interested in particle physics...

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's more than a minor nit. Saying CERN invented the net is like saying Henry Ford invented roads. When someone says something this far off base, I have to wonder about whatever else they've written, too.

The pictures are pretty awesome though.

Claiming 1/3 of the net's traffic routes through CERN is also just wrong; most net traffic does not leave its country of origin. It's like saying 1/3 of all car traffic goes through I-95. (akb427)

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

This reminds me of John Titor.
www.johntitor.strategicbrains.com

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hope it doesn't blow up the whole planet... No one knows. Anyway I will try to be on vacations far away when they flip the switch. What we know is that the risk is there. I heard many times that they were planning to "observe the big bang". Might not be the same scale etc... but, if you ask me, what they are doing is totally irresponsible. They never mentionned anything concerning the risks, I'm a bit worried...

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

that smashing-Bibles-together comment was the funniest thing i've read in a long, long time. thank you.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

What? Oh my god. They're going to blow us up, or we're gonna get sucked into a man made black hole http://botw.org/articles/endworld.html

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Blogger Steve said...

I love the anonymous geebsmackers with their "well, he made one mistake so he's obviously an idiot" comments. Puhl-eeze.

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Blogger G Pro said...

Awe inspiring and yet frightening at the same time. Could be a way to join general relativity and quantum mechanics and finally provide us a TOE. I want proof there are more than three spatial dimensions; the fourth being time.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know perfectly well that my comment is comparing apples and oranges, or perhaps apples and kiwi fruit, but...any scientist who really knows will say that the human brain makes this collider thingee look like a paper airplane next to the space shuttle.

Remember, while this machine is impressive, it took the human brain to conceive the theories behind the technology, design it, manufacture the components, and assemble it. Now THAT's impressive! (Yeah, I know...as I wrote first, the brain is flesh and blood and this thing is mechanical...or whatever it is. But it's still man's work. But the brain...that's a masterpiece conceived and created by God.) Marvelous, marvelous.

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Anonymous Peter said...

First of all I'd like to know how the heck they designed this in the first place. How do they know how they need to design all those intricate little parts when most people don't know how to program their VCR?

Second, this seems dangerous as hell. If it destroys the planet then odviously we're too stupid and careless to be worthy of life and deserve our destruction. But piss on those scientists who just have to KNOW what happens when you recreate the conditions of the big bang.

Third, who gives a damn other than the physicists and scientists? Seriously, more than half the planet doesn't have access to clean drinking water. With all the problems in the world, all the new technologies that could benefit ALL of mankind some enormous amount of money has been spent but will it end poverty? Will it put food on starving people's tables? Will it end wars, solve transportation problems, create economic bliss?

If you asked me I think the eye opening stuff that this experiment will produce will only be interesting and beneficial to less than 1% of the global population. But hey, at least the contractors who worked on this made some good money doing it!

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OpenID pbristow said...

Just to clarify, folks: There won't be any human-sized time-travellers stepping out of thin air at CERN when this things switches on... *Unless* the visitors have developed a completely different method of getting here.

What the LHC *might* do is create something a bit like a tiny test-loop of scalextric track in time, that proves the principle of someday being able to build a full sized motorway. That doesn't mean a bus full of tourists will suddenly appear on top of it. (And if it did, they'd break it! =:o} )

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OpenID pbristow said...

...And to the anonymous fearmongers: The scale of risks are pretty much proportional to amounts of energy involved. Think of the scale of accident that occurs when people drive at 80mph rather than at 40mph: Twice the speed, gives four times the kinetic energy; give four times the destruction when you crash.

Yes, the LHC will be accelerating protons to vast energies... *relative to the size of a proton*, which is incredibly tiny! They aren't going to destroy the planet. If they seriously booboo, they *might* trash some part of the collider which will cost megabucks to fix, but that's it.

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Anonymous Marilyn Terrell said...

Lots more gorgeous photos of the Large Hadron Collider, and an explanation in non-geek language of why it's so cool, on National Geographic magazine's story, "The God Particle":
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/god-particle/achenbach-text

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Peter: WTF is a VCR? Whats life like in the 80s? Is Michael Jackson still a star to you?
*scnr*

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

"more than half the planet doesn't have access to clean drinking water. With all the problems in the world, all the new technologies that could benefit ALL of mankind some enormous amount of money has been spent but will it end poverty? Will it put food on starving people's tables? Will it end wars, solve transportation problems, create economic bliss?"

This reminds me of the apochryphal story of Michael Faraday demonstrating one of his electromagnetic devices for a visiting politician: the official supposedly asked him what possible use the device could be put to. Faraday's reply: "Someday, you may be able to tax it."

What purpose did electricity come to serve? How many ways has it ended up ameliorating the ills of mankind? If we hold to the sentiment stated above, no one would ever have had the opportunity to find out.

We don't know what lies behind a closed door, we must open it to see: perhaps to find riches enough for all, or nothing.

If we establish a world where no one is allowed to take risks in order to learn, we should not be surprised to see poverty increase, not decrease.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

"G Pro said...

Awe inspiring and yet frightening at the same time. Could be a way to join general relativity and quantum mechanics and finally provide us a TOE. I want proof there are more than three spatial dimensions; the fourth being time."

You should check out Richard C. Hoagland and torsion physics. Build on the original Maxwellian physics (before a student of his rewrote his theories to 'clear them up'. Look at Maxwell's first or second editions...).

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Blogger Avi Abrams said...

Thank you Marylin - an awesome link!

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ David Bryden (religion/creationism guy)

In my opinion:

Better spent money than any cathedral or church. Religion-based thinking never solved/discovered anything, it has only caused many years of slowing down technological advancements and caused humans to fight for thousands of years for a cause nobody can specify/prove/show...

Everybody has the right to believe what they want.

I say "let's drop religious cults once and for all", there MIGHT be something out there, but if we're gonna discuss about it we won't find it. Less talk more action!

We should invest a LOT more in (Space) exploration because that's where all the answers lye, not in books written (and constantly adapted) hundreds/thousands of years ago by some men who wanted to have more power/money.

I think lots of religious people would end up in "hell" (if there even is one) because they speak "in the name of God/Allah".

Would you like it if I speak in YOUR name? You don't know who/what your "God" is, so you shouldn't tell others how to worship "Him/Her/It"! You might upset this force.

If we non-indoctrinated people want to investigate through empirical research in stead of mindless swallowing ancient-old mombo-jambo, let us do so.

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Anonymous Danielle said...

@ the last anonymous, talking to david there.

ok, you really think he's serious? did you even READ the second part of his post? he's obviously being sarcastic.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Эх братцы !!! Ебанёт так ебанёт!

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Blogger SamerZiadeh said...

hmmm, time travel o.O
I don't really believe that it could happen, but I do think that it's worth the research and trying to do

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

they still don't understand a grand unifying theory. so many things scientists don't know.

But they "assure" us that nothing can go wrong.

If they do recreate the big bang the good news it probably won't hurt for more than a fraction of a millisecond.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

So..if we go back in time and kill Hitler- are we going to get some Red Alert timeline?

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

These 2 scientist go to God & say "We figured it out. We can spontaneously create life out of nothing! We don't need You to do anything"

Good says "Show me"

So the scientists start to show Him & reach down and and grab a handful of dirt.. Then God interrupts them and says " No.. go get your own dirt!"

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Anonymous God is for cave men. said...

David Bryden you are a toolbag. Take the bridge.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

IM GOING TO TRAVEL TIME SO HARD

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why haven't we found evidence of life in space yet? Because most intelligent species are too curious for their own good: They build a Large Hadron Collider, are surprised when it creates a black hole, and the last word they utter as their planet disappears is "oops."

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Blogger spannungsbogen said...

OMG, John Titor was really from the future !!!!!

www.johntitor.com

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fucking complex. It could and it could not work...time, time travel... something that can not be understood completely. It would be way to easy to "fuck things up." Believing it could be done, and maybe this is it?

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think that they'll screw this up or destroy the planet blah blah like everyone's crying about. its CERN for christ's sake. these guys are probably 100 times smarter than anyone reading this article.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

If somebody invest such amount of money ho probably expects to get something out of is investment - in other word - Would you invest your many without a real possibility of getting profits?

I wonder who invests and what he expects to get?

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Anonymous Morten said...

Re time travel: may I remind you of the very convincing logic argument by Larry Niven that the only stable state is a universe where time travel isn't possible. :-)

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

this race of aliens just tried it http://www.alphagalileo.org/index.cfm?_rss=1&fuseaction=readrelease&releaseid=528069

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

How ironic it would be if the chronically neutral Swiss were the ones to destroy the planet. Too bad there wouldn't be anyone left to appreciate it.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time machine shtime machine, I wanna know who that hottie technician is!

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Blogger Brainwise said...

Interesting story on a structure that has huge implications. And thank you for posting all the pics; they really help in giving a proper sense of scale.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

who's the sexy engineer girl.. i want to marry her. Could you imagine the pillow talk ;)

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Blogger jesse285 said...

Well as time can say, there are still peoples that don't have good insight about too many things in this world, for then to say the dumbest thing should check their mouth at the door, because every things have a point of view and sure enough we have the one's that don't have the wisdom's that give us, shame on you for being dead in the brain.

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Blogger jesse285 said...

And about God, don't you think that the knowledge that he is giving us would help man kind along with the wisdoms that we have get. Why would he not help his peoples to learn the true, you have seen it in the book,it call the Bible: The of God.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

God put all we need to know about the Cosmos into His holy book.
If that was true, we never would have to seek answers to our questions.
If we were content with holy books, we never would enjoy the miracles of electricy (light, internet etc.) and optics (TV etc.); heck, we would still be living in tribes, hunting and foraging for our survivals. Population: a few thousands, since we wouldn't be able to effectively defend ourselves against predators of the era.

God (in whatever form) gave us our talents and he would not like us wasting them, would he now?

Leave your narrow mind behind; if you do not like the science, do not butt into it.

Thank you.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok, it sucks that this has to be done...repeating: david bryden was being sarcastic. any person who commented on him by slamming religion, nice try, but you're a twat. smashing king james bibles together then re-arranging the tiny bits of paper to come up with new stuff is not *actually* a part of any christian belief system, as much as it makes sense to believe so. why don't you find something useful to do, like turn yourself into mulch. then you can help out the guy concerned with food distribution throughout the world by growing some out of your arse. seriously.

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Blogger Avi Abrams said...

wow... seems like some people have attention span to read only first sentence of anything... reading a book? what a strange idea.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

half the world is starving?

You know what, screw that.

If mankind were to focus our efforts as a whole to carrying every single person who can't feed themselves, there would be ZERO progress.

The fact that most of the world lives in comfort (at least by the standard of being hungry) is a testament to the power of progress. If we spent all our time trying to get food to every hut and village that for whatever reason (be it their government, refusing to move, or refusing to adapt to a new world), then those of us who are pushing forward would never make progress.

Screw them. There I said it and I'm not ashamed of it. It is not the fault of those who are progressing our world that every last person isn't being carried along the way... there are so many billions that ARE being carried that it outweighs it a thousand times.

If the discovery of the telephone was replaced with a tribe being fed for a year would it have been worth it? What of the countless people who have been born since then (and possible due to) that invention? The changes to our world and improvements has saved/produced more lives then that tribe ever would have, and they're productive lives.

Fault does NOT lie on the men and women of progress to drag along every member of society, it falls on both those people and their rulers. Look into the corruption and ass-hattery of some of these poor peoples countrys. Blame them, not the people who are trying to improve the world, and to hell to you for being so simple minded

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

at least i got to see that sexy female physicist/engineer/tech before they push the big red button and blow the planet to smithereens.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Childhood's End"

Human Kind had a choice. To remain as organic beings - simple and cooperative or to become distinct evolved processes of thought. Without bodies. There was a point of divination in this work of fiction and it occured ,... AT THE BEGINNING

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Anonymous Mr. Natural said...

HOW IN THE WORLD could they have KNOWN that this is EXACTLY what I have in miniature in my newest ROCKET brand ray-gun? UNCANNY!

http://informiorium.blogspot.com/2008/03/alrighty-folks-rocket-brand-ray-gun-is.html

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Blogger Marrock said...

I speak from experience when I say that punching holes in reality is not a good thing.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice pictures, but who’s going to benefit from all of this, really?, if you ask me the one that was on the right track many years ago was Nikola Tesla, with his later experiments and vision of a future with free endless energy for everybody, as soon as they knew there wasn’t going to be any profit, they buried Tesla and his projects. Tesla’s theories were fascinating, based on frequencies, he also though about time travel, and there are some documents around that prove his success, on the matter. they were safe and worked, doesn’t any of you wonder why no one has publicly develop Tesla’s latest inventions? or have they done it sneakingly, like with his development of the “death ray”, (HAARP) but with a different purpose. This CERN’s project sounds to me like a fifty-fifty an enormous risk based on one theory, and becomes quite scary when the one pushing the buttons doesn’t even know what’s going to happen. one way or another is a good thing to read peoples reactions to something like this, so thanks to every one.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Goodbye folks. It was horrible knowing you. The end is nigh...

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Blogger erick said...

Y ESA MAQUINA PARA QUE PUTAS FUNCIONA....???

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Blogger Ravi Teja said...

As peter said, who gives a damn other than the physicists and scientists? Seriously, more than half the planet doesn't have access to clean drinking water. With all the problems in the world, all the new technologies that could benefit ALL of mankind some enormous amount of money has been spent but will it end poverty? Will it put food on starving people's tables? Will it end wars, solve transportation problems, create economic bliss?

If you asked me I think the eye opening stuff that this experiment will produce will only be interesting and beneficial to less than 1% of the global population. But hey, at least the contractors who worked on this made some good money doing it!

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Anonymous Joshua said...

This is my response to science vs. religion debate. I think, the bible is not really about the cosmos! God didn't inspire the bible to explain everything we need to know about science. That argument is irrational and absurd.

Assuming the bible is true, and I think it is: the bible was created for a specific purpose. Mainly to justify Jehovah's right to rule (God's sovereignty). There are some side points as well. But, from front to back, it has a genuine theme. It tells us who God is, what he is like, and how to walk with him. It explains God's guidelines and regulations. It explains why things are so bad, and finally, it details God's plan to fix things; ultimately setting them right.

In a nutshell, the bible can be defined as follows. It introduces us to God, tells us about him, tells us what's wrong with the world, what God did to fix things, who God sent to fix them, and what we must do to be fixed.

The bible is basically a textbook for living properly. Or more appropriately, how to live in harmony with God. It has little to do with anything else. God created everything complex for a reason. Without complexity what fun would life be? It gives us more to learn. The bible says there is no limit to God's knowledge, so it would be impossible to tell us everything in one book. It only told us what was necessary. He knew good and well we'd figure out lots of other things on our own. That's what science is for.

Albert Einstein said it best.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is another well known Einstein quote...

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

So when Einstein said "science is lame without religion and religion is blind without science" he was really saying...

"Science is lame without the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world, and the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world is blind without science."

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Anonymous Jambes Markes said...

So where exactly is the Flux Capacitor?

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Blogger Andrew said...

Absolutely amazing stuff. I can't wait to read what they found out when they launch it (even if it's likely they won't find that Higgs bosson).

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Blogger Aristarkhos said...

Scientific progress goes "Boink!"

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

CLEARLY ALIENS ARE HELPING WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY!!

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Blogger JTankers said...

CERNs web site states that we have not been destroyed by effects of cosmic rays and micro black holes will evaporate.

However, cosmic rays travel too fast to be captured by Earths gravity, and Hawking Radiation is disputed and contradicts Einsteins highly successful relativity theory. Collider particles smash head on like a car collision and can be captured by Earths gravity, and relativity predicts micro black holes will not decay (Hawking called Einstein doubly wrong, yet it is Einstein who is repeatedly found to have been correct in his theories). There is currently no reasonable proof of LHC safety, LSAG (LHC Safety Assessment Group) has been trying for months to prove safety without success. I hold the minority opinion that it may not be possible because it may in fact not be safe.

Cosmic Rays from the legal complaint.

any such novel particle created in nature by cosmic ray impacts would be left with a velocity at nearly the speed of light, relative to earth. At such speeds, . . . , is believed by most theorists to simply pass harmlessly through our planet with nary an impact, safely exiting on the other side. . . . Conversely, any such novel particle that might be created at the LHC would be at slow speed relative to earth, a goodly percentage would then be captured by earths gravity, and could possibly grow larger [accrete matter] with disastrous consequences of the earth turning into a large black hole.

If this thing is so safe, why arent CERN scientists allowed to express any personal fears they might have about this Collider?

Alleged in the legal action: Chief Scientific Officer, Mr. Engelen passed an internal memorandum to workers at CERN, asking them, regardless of personal opinion, to affirm in all interviews that there were no risks involved in the experiments, changing the previous assertion of minimal risk.

(Statisticians generally consider minimal risk as 1-10%).

JTankers
LHCConcerns.com

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I feel a new Dan Brown novel coming on...

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

hat's what they said about nuclear energy guys, and look where that got us in the early days... I've read about this thing before, about 4 years ago when they hadn't started building the physical tunnel yet. All I can remember from that is the same thing I'm thinking now; Is it really worth risking the planet to "see if we can do it"? in this case time travel, which, don't get me wrong, is an incredible concept to ponder over over a blunt with your mates, but not to test out on our already teetering ecology.

The problem is that this is a man made machine and therefore prone to errors, and there is no 'dev box' to run a dry test run of this thing to see if it works, not least of which is that it is based on THEORY in newly entered scientific territory. The next point of contention i have is that, being humans, we tend to like power but are notoriously crap at wielding it with any sort of decorum or aplomb. Following on from that is the fact that this thing is designed to have more gravity than a black hole and more heat than the fuggen sun chaps!!! Furthermore, what of the potential social and civil implication of leaving a bunch of emotionally devoid morally bankrupt global megalomaniacs to their devices with a machine that can bend space and time? Think of all the downright dastardly stuff our honorable world leaders have committed behind our back, or more accurately, right under our ignorant noses.

All i have to say to whoever is behind this?

"Nice idea but go test out your toys on Mars, if you've truly even been there, assholes..."

PS : Quote me on that.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe this is where all black holes come from. Each civilization crawls up out of the goo, acquires a bunch of knowledge and resources then goes Poof - black hole - galaxy forms around it.

Next....

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Blogger andrew said...

"doesn’t any of you wonder why no one has publicly develop Tesla’s latest inventions?"

Most likely because he went a little crazy in his later years and started calling relativity hogwash while touting his own theories about dynamic gravity.

"not least of which is that it is based on THEORY in newly entered scientific territory"

Well done. You've identified the purpose of science. Testing and hopefully confirmation of a theory through experimentation

"Nice idea but go test out your toys on Mars, if you've truly even been there, assholes..."

As if we need to waste another couple of billion dollars moving that big thing out onto another planet, let alone the risks of sending people to mars

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

hmm. im not sure why. but i dont like it.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Isn't if there was a functional time machine built any time in the future we would be seeing people from the future? perhaps that explains the pyramids and the hospitals full of crazies though.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

A couple of technical points:

The 'invention of the internet' thing is a bit dubious to me, because if I recall the basic Internet protocols were actually a DARPA/ARPA (name changes based on era, it's been alternately called the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and the less militaristic Advanced Research Project Agency).

As to the black holes. People get really scared when they're mentioned, but in reality the dominant force of a microscopic black hole is not gravity. In addition black holes emit energy in the form of Hawking radiation. Any black hole that size would literally evaporate before it could aggregate enough matter to form a self-sustaining singularity. Very much faster.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

There seems to be a lot of fear mongering going on on this board. Does anyone actually have an idea of the risks involved (statistics), and might I add that the fear of blowing up the world has never stopped experiments in the past. Hydrogen bomb, anyone?

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Blogger notepad publishing said...

This is quote from:
http://www.notepad.ch

It's a whiz-bang experiment, with a downside that could really suck

This is a quote from an article by Graham (Graham Phillips is the presenter of ABC TV's Catalyst and a former astrophysicist) in The Age in Australia published on the 13. April 2008.

Graham Phillips introduces the article with:
'WILL the world end later this year? In mid-August, in a chamber deep underneath the Swiss-French border, physicists will switch on a machine that might produce the first man-made black holes. Normally only found in outer space, these high-gravity objects have a reputation for devouring all matter in their vicinity — and they only stop when the food runs out. Could the Earth's first black hole also end up being its last, after it sucks in the chamber, the physicists, and the entire planet?'

This is quote from:
http://www.notepad.ch

___  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow, who is that engineer girl?
i will devote my life to scientific experiences to join CERN crew and meet this girl :)

___  
Blogger Avi Abrams said...

Amen, brother

___  
Blogger notepad publishing said...

Would you like to contact the CERN?

http://www.lhcconcerns.com/LHCConcerns/Forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=136

Regards

admin
notepad.ch

___  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It won't create a black hole that can devour the Earth. The experiment was already done. It followed Steven Hawking's Radiation, where a black hole can basically evaporate.

And for time travel... it's only into the future. Sorry guys. Thats how relativity works. Travelling at near-light speeds allow you to time travel basically... which is only possible at the sub-atomic scale in this particle accelerator - smaller than an atom.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a time machine and it works. 2008 is the earliest year we can return to because there is no way to go back any further, because the machine did not function until it was turned on. I know because it was 2013 and I finally about to bone my girlfriend, but then we saw that there was this black hole, and then she said that there was no-way.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

The end is nigh. We are all about to be eaten by a black hole. We are all going to die.

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Blogger gregorysbfinite said...

Time machine... sheez! and these holy rollers... tsk, tsk. comparing this thing to the brain... Some of this stuff I just read, I don't know whether or not to be amused, insulted, disgusted, or just plain pissed off. And since anger always works, let me just answer the most important question:

Because we don't know.

That's what it all boils down to.
That's what it means to be a tool using monkey.

And when the tools we have don't answer the questions we discover using the tools we do have, why, we build a bigger tool. And that's what it means to be a tool using monkey fulfilling the will of god.

So, yay CERN!

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I (and obviously many others) am interested to see if this massive investment of time and resources bears fruit. What I am not concerned about is the possibility that the earth will be swallowed into a man-made singularity.

Even *if* such a thing were created in the collider, and even *if* Hawking was totally off-base and the singularity will not evaporate...ever, there will not be a sufficiently large superdense core mass to destroy the planet by pulling the entire thing into a singularity.

Worst case scenario? Enough mass gets "sucked" and compressed onto our hypothetical singularity fast enough to create a dangerous and unstable layer that basically explodes violently and sprays around a liberal amount of hard radiation.

Sure it might be a powerful enough effect to be like a small nuke (or a large nuke for that matter), and it may be possible that the effect could be perpetual, but the Atlantic is between the collider and my home, so it's not exactly an immediate problem, for me anyway.

Now later on, once the singularity tunnels into the ground deep enough and digests enough mass, it will have more widespread effects and become a threat to the stability of the planet itself, but those guys at CERN are super-geenyous-es. They'll get it sorted out.

Hopefully the thing would just get stably trapped in random materials at some point and get lost among the other rocks. ;-)

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

guess will fkin killl us before NIBIRU does haha

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

My god! So many people are retarded! First of all, they're scientists, not shelf stackers at office works. They know their stuff. Think about it, they have families too. Do you really think they just wanna kill themselves for it? Of course they don't! The world isn't going to implode! The world wont turn into strange matter! Aliens will not come out of some weird portal and recreate the events of the half-life series! And if it does? Then that's it. You didnt get to hook up with that hot blonde 4 doors down, you didn't get to have a kid, you didn't finish university, and you never got to play gta 4. See the people that matter most to you, be extra sweet to your girlfriend, treat your mumma right, come down to Australia, have a can of vb, and have a great time! Be happy with your life, and you wont have anything to worry about. You've got less than 25 days. If you're lonely go out and get some friends, just talk to randoms. Go skydiving, unless you're scared of heights, then it could kill you. And if that's not your thing, fine. Doesn't matter if you just like to sit at home and watch military comedies with dad, or cook with mum, just be happy no matter what comes in your way. Have fun =)

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

they used a stretch of that for the filming of terminator 3 (when they are running along that big magnet thing 2 kill that sexy terminator in the red leather suit LOL

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Turn that silly thing on, I'm ready and willing for anything that happens! I've always wanted to go through a black hole to see if you really can't escape. How would anyone know that you can't?... I wanna see if this thing really does produce black holes, and if it does, we'll probably start researching them ASAP. And if it doesn't well then we have a whole lot of new stuff to look at on our hands. It's simple people! We watched too many fake movies about microscopic black holes that can eat our planet - who's to say they will grow big huh. How would you know, have you lived next to one? Have you done research on one? I have much more to say. But most people probably wont even read all of this. But if you do want to send me a message, send it to my myspace cuz this is just some site I wondered on. www.myspace.com/Wraith3777

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Awww...a MINI BLACK HOLE! How adorable, I want one! Is it friendly? Will it eat cat food? How big does its bunker have to be?

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I liked to oops theory!
So, by now, what we're going to say is: "oops I did it again"...
Yeah, it's certainly a time machine!

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Anonymous David Rix said...

I am in awe of this machine!!! It is truly amazing to see this taking shape and starting up and to imagine what it must have taken to build it. The pictures are stunning. This machine seems to sum up what is best about humanity - perhaps even more so than the politically tangled moon landings and early space program. This is a quest for discovery simply because discovery is essential for us and our civilization - and a fundamental part of us. That transcends the gloom generated by all the people who just cry 'waste of money' and worse because they cant see or understand the end result of it and therefore assume that it will be 'worthless' - or cannot see the huge human significance of this and other big projects. You want waste of money, look at the military budget or the crazy political systems that surround us. It is this sort of exploration and the understanding that it slowly generates that will help us progress away from the primitive and selfish outlooks and relationships with the world that we have now. To cure poverty and fix the world's woes, you have to fix human culture as a whole - and you do that by discovering and thinking. Not by just buying them a meal. You do it through amazing experiments like this and people who dare to try things or think things where they dont know what will happen. That's where everything that surrounds us came from, after all!

Given the Amount of money that people as a whole spend on killing each other - sorry, otherwise known as the military budget - i am very glad we decided to pump some cash into something like this. It proves to me that humanity isn't hopeless. This machine is what humanity is all about!!! Cant you feel the throb of it? Beautiful! ;-)

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Anonymous Jack Howe said...

US Military Budget for 2007 = $439,300,000,000 [439.3 BILLION]

Cost of LCH = up to 6,400,000,000 [6.4 BILLION]

So yes - agreed with the above! Talk of wasted money seems a bit silly really, doesn't it.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I work @cern. We create a Star Gate.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is our new bredband internet. In the pipe are our glass fibers.

Got the picture?

We also use the tunnel for cheese and as a modern winecellar.
And as a safe place to store money.

It just a big swiss army knive, with timetravel option.

That girl is an actor we hired. She works for Adecco a believe.

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Blogger Avi Abrams said...

Aha! The truth comes out..

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Anonymous Country Hick said...

Actually the unit will force the planet to change the magnetic poles, so that point will be magnetic North shifting the earths rotation. So hold on Folks! Time to ride a planet!

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Anonymous JUST COOL Design Blog said...

this whole thing is just cool - and if we end up being sucked into the black hole it will happen so quickly we won't even know what happened - we wont even know - we wont even - we wont - be
cool

___  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sooo... to all you who are wondering what this is going to do for all the people that are starving and without energy, blah blah. it actually will benefit everyone. when mankind has a unified theory of physics we will be master manipulators of our environment, we would be able to come up with great new ways to create energy and control our environment. science is about being in control of our environment through total understanding. if we can understand and harness the very stuff that everything is made of we could create endless energy and on and on. science builds on itself, scientific progress may seem meaningless to some, but in the big picture it always leads to a better life for everyone. how the hell do you think you got to even be able to type some of the stupid shit you all are saying. science, it brought you the internet, your phone, your car, your keyboard, your children even (science has saved many children at birth that normally would have died). the fact is most of us would not exist now if we tried to solve everyone's problems. we can not save the world we can only save ourselves. all this talk about starving people is really a product of the media trying to market products to people. stop paying money to make comercials about Darfur and just fix the problem. the problem is, if there was not starving people, some organization would be out of a job. sooo... by just merely bandaging the problem, we are perpetuating it. if YOU don't want people to starve take them some food there yourself. don't bitch unless you are actually doing something about it, yourself, donating money does not help anyone. get off the computer and your ass and go to a country with starving people and feed them. or just stop trying to cut science down. i could go on forever about this.

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Anonymous John Cater said...

Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away they built this same collider. That was about 15 billion years ago. It worked! See, time does repeat itself.

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Blogger sweetmystery said...

We are playing with unknown fields of possibility, who truly knows what the investor's intentions are behind the go ahead when so many possible dangers have been overlooked. It's not unlike us humans to do such things, after all, some still believe that aspartame is harmless, most don't even question it. Yet it barely underwent any harmful effects studies before being released for consumption, or did it? Foods and drugs are but one strand in the grand tapestry, the FDA may exemplify this. Aspartame is now known to cause many problems, cancer being on that list. How could this serve anyone's agenda? Lets see, we make money from chemically induced food, then we make money from the drugs needed to heal us from what we unquestioningly consume. It may also help to know that Donald Rumsfeld had vested interest in the company that produced aspartame, not to mention a few large Banks. I wonder, what are the hidden interests behind the ludicrous amount of funds that went in to the LHC?



What we know of the goings on in the world could fill a thimble. I do know what men of power want, more power. History shows us how many enthusiastic unknowing scientist served as paws in the hands of world financial and commercial Giants. Whatever is going on must be brilliant, and the profits are all going to the World Bank, think of the interest alone! Bankers exemplify true despot brilliance, "beware the money lenders". We can only see the tip of the iceberg, I sense that the truth is far stranger than fiction...



This waa written by an anonynous; "Saying CERN invented the net is like saying Henry Ford invented roads'. Well as a matter of fact, Henry Ford did not invent the combustion engine or automobile, as a good man of commerce, Henry saw an opportunity. Nicolas Joseph Cugnot of France built the first combustion engine and automobile in 1769, he was a scientist with very poor commercial foresight. And by the way roads were not invented for Cars, they were invented for bicycles, and the first bicycle was invented by Compte Mede De Sivrac of France. You should have used his name in your analogy. Should we give credence to what you state? By the way, I'm not from France...

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Anonymous reader said...

Check out all the new essays...

FQXi Essay Contest on the Nature of Time

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/category/10

...foundational questions in physics, cosmology, and related fields.

___  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't wait til they find the Higgs bosson.

Then my life will be complete

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

the collider isn't going to prove anything just justify the fact that we as humans fall short of the glory and wonder of god. And how incredibly stupid a lot of us are and try to shoot particles at one another to find out what we already know, the fact that GOD created the Universe.

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Blogger jesse285 said...

Well I don't think it a waste of money because money is a tool to gain more wisdom and knowledge!

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Anonymous Morti said...

Beyond imagination! David it's not waste of money, god give us something far better than holy book; intellect.

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Blogger Jaggy said...

hm hm. Hai everybody. I am a Time traveller from 2097. The particle accelerator is in its initial stage now. But in our time it has become smaller than the size of a laptop. We used to surf through time occassionally. Now I on the way from visiting napolean, france. See you by 2012.

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Blogger Dale The Snail said...

Ok, firstly some of the comments on this page are hilarious. It's so great to see so many people's reactions to this, well i guess you could call it latest experimental scientific creation, they've all been so different.

Of course there's always the arguement of being too curious for our own good, but that is pretty much the way in which humans have advanced and will always advance. imagine if the first cave man didn't leave his valley to go check out the next one. Nothing would've changed.

The greatest thing I like about this mammoth invention is the fact that it sparks my imagination. It would be so awesome to have a tour of it. Someone said they went on a school outing to it. I would love to know what it's like. In fact if anyone knows of any touring videos or websites which explain the whole set up I would appreciate it emmensely.

Is that even legal though? I thought it would be very top secret, but I guess if a school is allowed to see it, then other people can.

If anyone has any other interesting infomation links about time travel I would also appreciate it. I find it fascinating as well. Thanks

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Prehaps the reason why no other technologically advanced life has not been found in the universe is that they all got to the stage we are at, LHC, maybe this is the limiting factor of civilised life.
Create your own blackhole and then disappear down. lets go baby

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Blogger Prajjval said...

I can make time machine in just 1 year with my new theories and new assumption and it does nt require like a such a large machine its just only like a handwatch size i am telling this officialy last time bcz when i complete then i doesnt reveals becauze of its many harmful effect i am just completing for my personal reason goodbye, and i am proud to be an indian

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Blogger Prajjval said...

But only after when i complete my b.tech then just working with 1 year i can show many efforts

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Blogger Dougle said...

You don,t have to think very hard to come to the conclusion that we are all doomed. Lets say this technology takes off and we end up actually being able to 'travel time'. Then include the corruption that is being revealed to us every day amongst the rich and powerful 'elite' types amongst us. We see more and more of this general disregard for ethics and morals every morning when we turn on the news, fraud here/laundering there by corporations and such (i cant be more specific because i couldnt really be arsed) but in my opinion this will spread into this type of technology and their 'meddling in time', most probably for financial/monetary gain, will bring our world/species as we know it to a most unseemly demise. I discussed this with my Uncle Dave, and he agreed. He said "it wont be me and you travelling through time will it Dougle, to end poverty and war for example, more likeley the bankers and their chums, to get next years crop/war reports etc". He makes a valid point i think. But this is just my opinion really. Also, Prajjval...I,d love to know how you are getting on with your own personal time travel experiments... i wonder, have you cracked it??? Although i dont know you, and have never met you, i am also proud of you. Good luck to you all. I will be going out listening to Green Day.

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